Posts by Jeremy C

343

Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.

i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.

those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.

Jeremy C

I was born and raised as a Jehovah's Witness and spent some 30 years in the organization. I studied their publications for some 20 years. I researched the key doctrines frontwards and backwards. I spent countless hours pouring over Watchtower publications in addition to many Bible translations, commentaries, and other books by Biblical scholars (real scholars, not JW pseudo-scholars).

So, I find it amusing that Watchtower apologists would admonish people like me to be "open minded" about the very Watchtower teachings that I have discovered to be false.

I have heard of accounts of the gold rush of the late 1800's where excited prospectors took loads of gold flakes into the exchanges only to be informed that it was fool's gold. Upon hearing this, the prospectors became angry; insisting that the exchange merchants were wrong and that their equipment must be flawed. They insisted that what they had really was gold, and that the merchants just couldn't see it. They clearly had an emotional investment in believing that what they had found was the real thing. It was all they had left. This is very similar to those who have spent a lifetime invested in a religious organization.

This reminds me of the Watchtower with all of it's surrogates, apologists, and clingers-on. They just cannot let go of the idea that Russell hit "gold" with his Watchtower enterprise; insisting that it is everyone else who is wrong, and who cannot see the "spiritual gold mine" of the Watchtower. It is very inconvenient for them that some people choose to exercise incredulity in spotting the genuine from the bogus.

81

Prop 8 - Petition against the tax-exempt status of the Mormons

by Devilsnok in

jw
friends

i see no reason why any organised religion should be exempt from paying their due taxes.

here's a chance to rob the mormon church of their tax exempt status.... please visit http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/review-the-501c3-status-of-the-church-of-latter-day-saints-the-mormons and sign it and pass it on to your friends.. .

the lds church contributed a significant amount of money and effort to endorse prop 8 in california via its network of church, media, and community outlets enshrining discrimination under the law for thousands of californians and their families.. .

Jeremy C

Personally, I am sickened by the level to which churches and religious groups are attempting to manipulate the political process these days. This not only applies to those that support conservative causes, but also liberal ones. I do not want public policy to be influenced by the Bible, the Koran, the Upanishads, or the Buddhist Sutras, for that matter.

But, I am against stripping churches of tax exempt status. This status does have many stipulations that churches must follow. A religious organization cannot, for example contribute directly to a campaign or a candidate. Many other rules apply.

Churches do provide many benefits to society. They offer shelters for the homeless, soup kitchens, various community projects, and support groups. Churches have helped countless people to overcome addictions and to become better citizens. I, althought not religious, would not want to see those benefits threatened. Furthermore, to strip churches of tax-exempt status would be to embark down a slippery slope. This would open the door for stripping many other non-profit entities (such as the United Way) of their tax-exempt status for political purposes. That, in my opinion is not good public policy.

28

Nov 5 Dr. Phil - Cult Mind Control - WATCH TONIGHT!

by still_in74 in

jw
friends

wednesday - november 5, 2008mind control?its hard to believe, but in america alone, there may be as many as 5,000 religious groups preying upon the weak and vulnerable, and all in the name of god.

dr. phils guests have warnings for you and your children.

seeta says when her 18-year-old daughter joined a religious group called 1 mind ministries, she left home with her 7-month-old son and never returned.

Jeremy C

If you applied steve hassans book to Jesus and his followers, given he said you had to leave family, told a rich man to give up all his money and follow him, in fact told most of his followers to leave their jobs and follow him only living on what they could get as donations would Jesus and his followers be defined as a cult by steve hassan?

Many are assuming that Jesus actually uttered all of these words; and that they have been accurately recorded verbatim in the original manuscripts, without any error. I'm afraid that Jesus would actually have to presently be here on earth for anyone to be able to observe him and listen to his words - to hear it "directly from the horses mouth" before we could make those judgements. In the Buddhist Sutras, many discourses and teachings are attributed to the Buddha himself. Did he really say all of those things as recorded? It is highly unlikely. How can we really know for sure if we were not there to hear it ourselves?

1

A change in the weather!

by the sage in

a new president has been elected!

is this the begining of a new world order?.

isaiah 32a king will reign in righteousness 1behold, a king will reign in righteousness,.

Jeremy C

I'm sure that if Fred Franz was still alive, he would find a way to weave this election into some Old Testament prophecy somewhere. And I'm confident that the terms "Anti-Christ" and "descendant of Canaan" would be prominent in such ramblings.

25

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-02-08 WT Study (PURE LANG)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 11-2-08 wt study (august 15, 2008, pages 21-25) (pure language).

are you speaking the "pure language" fluently?

speaking the pure language fluently .

Jeremy C

Another Watchtower "Pure Language" article? Oy vey. I thought that these pure language articles would have died out with afros and bell-bottoms.

But just as past fads tend to re-emerge in later generations, this Fred Franz era propaganda is being pulled off of the shelf, dusted off, and put back into circulation for the newer generation of JWs.

I think that the Watchtower’s teaching of the "Pure Language" has probably been one of the most effective accessories in their mind control repertoire. The pure language is presented as being an all encompassing standard that governs all areas of Christianity (doctrines, conduct, sacred service, organizational standards, etc.) The Watchtower has taken it upon itself to define what the pure language is. Since the Watchtower is able to convince its followers that they alone are the only ones "speaking" the pure language, the "pure language" of the Watchtower now becomes a litmus test by which all other Christians must pass. And thus, it is no surprise that all other denominations fail the test.

This feeds into the "where else can we go" dilemma. The average JW is convinced that since Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones "speaking the pure language", that there is no where else for them to go. It also allows them to dismiss the devotion and fine conduct of other Christians since those Christians are not speaking the "pure language".

The Watchtower leadership is like a first year law school student who drops out of college, and proceeds to begin writing books on what is "constitutional" and what is not.

41

Did Your District Conventions Have A Meat Market?

by Jeremy C in

i was recently thinking back upon some of my unusual memories of being in the organization.

one of them was of the dodger stadium "meat market".. we used to attend our district conventions at dodger stadium in los angeles.

for those of you who arent familiar with the stadium, dodger stadium has a very large level with blue seats - which is the largest level within the stadium.

Jeremy C

I'm a vet statium veteran.

God I hated that place !

Awe gee whiz, what wasn't there to love about the Vet? Wait a second . . . . . Astroturf, the Philly Fanatic, a lot of guys with mullets . . . I take that back. I suppose a large singles area wasn't possible since all of the single brothers were too busy thinking about cheese steaks.

14

How will the Society prepare JWs when they call on inactive apostates?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

a critical mass of exjws is gradually being reached.

perhaps eventually, there might be several in each town.. inevitably, faithful witnesses will call on these ones, unsuspecting of who they are, what they believe and such prepared demonstration of "how to place the magazines" will not go down well.. reading the many experiences here, for the most part, many exjws try to plant a seed in the mind of the witnesses.. this seed may be discussed with other members of the car group.

the conversation may go nowhere, but a seed has been planted and someone or something will keep on making it grow.. thus spread the seeds of doubt and discontent.. it's the converted preaching to the unconverted who in turn witness to the converted.. the society have a real mess on their hands - exjws are no longer an unknown quantity, a fringe element.

Jeremy C

There is no need for any significant game plan. Simple reminder articles in the Kingdom Ministry on "Apostates In the Field" is enough amunition for the average Witness to reject unflattering information. Remember a very important point: Jehovah's Witnesses have already been systematically trained to dismiss all unflaterting facts about the organization by the use of ad homenim arguments. It's quite simple. Anyone in the field who displays too much knowledge about Watchtower doctrine when raising objections can be dimmissed as "one who does not have a right heart condition", or "one who does not want to accept the truth". These slogans have been repeated for as long as I can remember; and are quite effective in sheilding the JW mind from inconvenient facts.

Remember: all it takes for a householder to receive the "apostate" label is to demonstrate an above average knowledge of Watchtower history, doctrine, or policy. That is when their address is added to the "Do Not Call" list on the territory card. However many of these individuals may be in the territory is irrelevant.

23

Petrol prices drop so a Brother told me the bookstudy is back on!!

by Witness 007 in

jw
friends

my good friend told me the bookstudy would be back on if petrol prices drop!!!!

of course this never effected those witnesses who were too poor to own a car....who crossed crocodile infested rivers...got malaria....attacked by bandits just to make it to the bookstudy....."daddy we lost little johnny in the river!

" {dad} - "is the new world translation still dry?

Jeremy C

So now the Watchtower leadership is hinging it's meeting schedules upon the price of gasoline? Brilliant, just brilliant. What if it was Satan the Devil who had put it into the minds of oil traders to drive up the price of crude? What if Satan causes the futures markets to drive up the price of paper? Will the Watchtower combine their publications into one big bulky notebook? I think the Governing Body better convene a special session to discuss and vote on this issue. My theory just might have some legs . . . . .

21

Bossert deal falls through

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

mebbe gene smalley will have to forgo that room remodel...dogz thursday linksamny does best of ny october 23, 2008levine walks, bossert back in play.

at the eleventh hour, r.a.l.

companies has walked away from its contract to purchase the former bossert hotel from the watchtower group, a source familiar with the situation tells us.

Jeremy C

I used to attend morning worship at the Bossert while I was at Bethel. Sometimes I would look around and marvel when considering how much money the building must be worth. There is a large beautiful mural in the rear of the lobby of the Brooklyn harbors as they would have appeared in the late 1800s. Charles Russell was painted into the mural, but in an inconspicuous way. I wonder if those who purchase the building will keep the mural or wallpaper over it.

41

Did Your District Conventions Have A Meat Market?

by Jeremy C in

i was recently thinking back upon some of my unusual memories of being in the organization.

one of them was of the dodger stadium "meat market".. we used to attend our district conventions at dodger stadium in los angeles.

for those of you who arent familiar with the stadium, dodger stadium has a very large level with blue seats - which is the largest level within the stadium.

Jeremy C

that was also why you bring binoculars to scope out the cute Bros

LOL Binoculars - nice. At a large stadium, binoculars are a premium - particularly for watching the drama that is being performed 500 yards away. Without them, all you see of the drama are tiny specks flamboyantly waving their arms around.

If Judge Rutherford could have only been alive to see these modern day District Conventions; and how many of the sisters were dressing. Not only did the "Millions Now Living" die afterall, but the many who should have never been born were now dressing in ways that would have horrified him. I suppose he would have had one of two reactions. Either he would have launched into a bitter diatribe at one of the conventions, or he would have invited one of those sisters back to his quarters for some Bible lessons and bourbon.